Do you ever feel like a victim?  Do you ever feel like you are being unfairly attacked?  All of us are victimized; all of us do get unfairly attacked.  So how can we stay out of drama? How can we keep happy, joyous, at peace in the face of injustice?

Could the solution be as simple as becoming like a heron, standing on one foot, gazing into the water?  For Claudia, that’s an important part of the answer. Try it!  Perhaps Claudia’s heron can help you too!

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. How can I eat more chocolate without becoming fat?

2. How can I smoke more without developing lung cancer?

3. How can I become less critical sounding?  Not so pessimistic?

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

Shadie and Dayo were attacked by a mafia-type guy.  The man came with a shovel and Dayo ran.  Shadie laid there and is cut by the shovel.  I cry for help…An old lady takes me in her house and gives me tea. She is having a little tea-party-blether. The phone rings.  It’s for me.  The message is that my mother is in the hospital dying.  I feel that I am in the dramas of the dog, the superficiality of this old ladie’s circle, and my mother.

Dayo and Shadie:

Why do you think that you had this dream?

It’s like Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder!  I kept losing things in my nightmares that I love.  This is a repetitive theme in my dreams.  I think I have them because my dogs have been ill.  I’ve been very worried about them.

If this dream were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

Drama!

These are the characters in the dream, beside yourself…

Two dogs, the shovel, a man that knows that he can hurt me when he hurts what I love, the old lady, mother in the hospital, street, house

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Shadie.  I have the strongest feelings for him….

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Shadie, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I have had my head bashed in by the shovel.  There is blood all over.  I am dead and I am not dead because I am a dream dog.  I’m just alive.  I don’t feel good.  This is Claudia’s dream, that something bad always happens to me, and I don’t like it!

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I stay in a good mood.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I am so passive when the man came and attacked me.

Shadie, you are in Claudia’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right?  Shadie, what aspect of Claudia do you represent or most closely personify?

The part that always gets hit over the head!

Shadie, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

No! Claudia would change it, but I don’t!  It’s equal.  It doesn’t matter.  It’s aggression.  Either I get my head bashed in or someone has my teeth in his throat.  But I can’t be bothered to attack.  Claudia would love me to kill him, but I can’t be bothered.

What would happen next if the dream were to go on?

I am dead, Claudia brings me away from the street, and Claudia is very sad. I would become a white Heron because I can stand passively and look at the water. If you can wait for half a day, I might say something.  I’m just standing here.

Shall I continue to speak to Shadie or the Heron?

I have had enough of this blood!  I will be the heron!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Heron, you are in Claudia’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right?  Shadie, what aspect of Claudia do you represent or most closely personify?

It’s a part that can stand on one foot all day and look at the water and only move when it sees a fish~! I represent her equanimity.

Heron, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 A fish always comes by!

Compassion: 10  5  for me, 5 for the fish!

Wisdom: 10  I know where the best fish are.

Acceptance:      Sure!

Inner Peace:  9 Also on one foot!

Witnessing:  8 I stay very calm and see everything.

Heron, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

When I have a ten in compassion I become a vegetarian!  Or I will have to say a prayer before and after meals! In the other things, it doesn’t matter…

How would Claudia’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

Her problem is that she has a compassion of ten!

Do you think it would be good if she had less compassion??

During the dramas, drink a tea!  She is suffering with so many things all the time!

Do you think that the suffering of others makes her become like Shadie?

No, she is suffering with Shadie.  It’s best for her to go to the sea and look at the water and not suffer with others.  If she was a ten in all things she wouldn’t look at dolphins and other things getting killed on the TV after days with already enough drama.

If you could live Claudia life for her, how would you live it differently?

I would meditate more on one foot and look on the water!  After half a day, change feet!

If you could live Claudia’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1. How can I eat more chocolate without becoming fat? I eat only fish and don’t get fat!  Ask a nutritional expert!

2. How can I smoke more without developing lung cancer? There is a man in a boat that always smokes who doesn’t feel well because he is always coughing.  I’m not the expert for this because I don’t smoke.  The Heron says, “STOP IT!”  How do you go about stopping? You start!   The inner pathologist can tell you about lungs and smoking…

What would help to stop it?

To BEGIN!

3. How can I become less critical sounding?  Not so pessimistic?

Are you critical, Heron?  Are you pessimistic?

Why should I be?

Is Claudia so critical?

No, she is self-critical. She criticizes herself for not saving enough lives and not doing enough to protect others from getting hurt or dying.  She suffers and is empathetic.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

1. To stand on one foot and look at the water – that’s all!

2. Not to forget to get on the other foot when the one becomes cold!

3. Always look in the water.  Always remember that I am here….

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Claudia to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Always at the right time. Whenever the drama is too much and her balance is threatened.

Heron, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

No!  Too boring!

I thought drama was exciting?

Oh yeah?

What is your secret for staying out of drama?

It’s always the same, isn’t it?  If you’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all.  You look in the other direction!  Don’t place yourself in the middle of drama! No TV!  But she doesn’t need to follow all my advice.

Why do you think that you are in Claudia’s life?

To show her that there are other things in life besides drama.

How is Claudia most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

By saying I’m just fantasy?

Aren’t you?

What’s reality?  Who knows?

What would you recommend that she do about that?

Realizing that SHE just might be fantasy!

Why would she want to do that?

To put things into proper relationship.

I think Claudia had this dream because…

Because she only sees one side of reality and that’s suffering and death.

Why does she does that?

That’s what she’s learned.  You lose what you love.  What you love gets killed, gets run over, dies.

What do you think about what she’s learned, Heron?

That’s part of the truth.  The other part is life.  Being alive, standing on one foot, waiting for a fish.  You don’t know what I think and where I go in my mind when I’m standing here, gazing in the water.  Other people can’t stand on TWO legs, let alone one!

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

To scare herself, to hurt herself.

Why would she want to do that?

Because that’s what she’s used to…

What have you heard yourself say?

To be in absolute balance is the most important thing.  There is a part inside of me that is very calm, in balance, and doesn’t get in drama.

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Stand often on one foot!  Maintain balance!  Self-confidence.  Concentration.

“You have a part of yourself that can stand on one foot and it is good for maintaining your inner sense of balance in your life.  You have a part that can choose not to suffer but to be in balance.  There are always enough dramas in the world; it’s important to be in balance.”

It’s important to find a part of myself that can stand still, balance, and look into the water. Perhaps it is important to take this yoga position before the water!  It’s important to feel myself as a heron in my normal life when people are into drama.

What would be the subject for the next interview regarding this dream?

Nobody.  It’s only important to get out of the drama.  The best thing would be to get out while Claudia is dreaming….

What did you hear Heron say?

That he’s getting tired of being asked all these questions.  He wants to get back to the water!

Practically: Don’t waste much time with dreaming dreams of victimization.  Look for a way out of the drama!  The Shadie part of myself was bored by the same thing happening.  I’m victimizing myself in the dream, Shadie in the dream, my mother in the dream because she also dies, I victimize the man because I want to kill him.  I victimize the Dayo part of myself because he gets scared.  It’s almost like these other parts of oneself are bored by it all and only get into the drama because we want them to in our dreams…

Notice that Claudia is slowly waking up. She is seeing her life dramas of suffering and victimization as self-created repetitive boredom that persecutes the other parts of herself that have to show up to play these tired, melodramatic roles.  Ideally, she will learn to wake up in dreams, to realize what she is doing, and stop it.

Some IDL dream interviews emphasize healing.  Others emphasize balance. Others emphasize transformation.  This one emphasizes all three.

What does a useful lucid dream look like?  The following dream, which has a lucid portion, may change or expand your thoughts on the purposes of dream lucidity. The lucidity itself is not of particular benefit in the dream because it is neither understood by the dreamer, nor does it accomplish anything of lasting value.  In fact, its inability to create lasting change is itself an important part of its function. (Comments follow the interview…Feel free to add your own!)

None of this is understood or appreciated until the dream is interviewed.  Without the interview, the significance of the lucidity, as well as the dream, are largely missed.  You can test this statement for yourself.  Read over the following dream and make your best guess as to what it is about and what the significance is of the lucidity.  It would be best if you wrote down your interpretation/prediction so that you can’t go back later and say, after you have read the interview, “That’s what I thought all along!”  Either you wrote it and you knew or you didn’t write it and you didn’t know.  Fair enough?

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

I was on a small property, all very green. There were two very big, bright red geckos with black triangles on their backs.  Very big, very fleshy, but they were kind!  I wasn’t afraid of them.  In the dream I thought, ”Amazing!  How beautiful they are!  How fascinating!”  I think I had my cell phone in my hand.  One of these lizards sprang up and had a tooth like my shark’s tooth hanging out of his mouth.  He went for this cell phone but he scratched my wrist in the process. In my dream I looked at this cut.  It didn’t even bleed.  I thought, “That’s not a big cut.”  I kept walking and every now and then I would look at my hand.  The cut opened up more and more, each time I looked at it.  I could see my flesh, my arteries and veins. My whole wrist opened up until I could look down at the bone.

In the dream I then told myself that this was a dream. “I am dreaming this!”  I was trying to shake this wrist injury off.  I was sitting in the green grass, telling myself, “I’m just dreaming this.”  Then the injury was gone.  Sitting in this grass, I looked around myself and said,”I’m still not awake…”  Then I looked at my wrist and the wound had returned!  I thought, “Oh no!  It’s disgusting!”  “What‘s happening here?”  Why is this wound on my wrist?”  I woke up shaking my wrist and trying to get rid of the wound again!

So, before you read any further, write down what this dream would be about if you had it.  What would be the significance of the episode of lucidity?

Why do you think that you had this dream?

This one I’ve been kept busy thinking about for the last week and a half.  I haven’t written it down because it’s so disgusting… It was the night after I got this shark tooth present from Claudia…I think it was disgusting!  There was a fear that my hand might fall off.  A fear of being disabled.  This was my left hand.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. Further training to become a sauna master. I am hoping I’ll be granted this training by the authorities.  I’ll be told tomorrow whether this has been financed for me.

2. Amy, my daughter.  I would love to be able to support my daughter regardless of her father to become more self confident and do things on her own.  Her father won’t allow her to do things on her own.  Instead of protecting her he’s making her incapable of dealing with life.

3. I will not concentrate on Bob this time. The issue is my family.  The second time my mother tried to contact me by Skype and for the second time I blocked her, but with a bad feeling.

If this dream were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

The Opening Wound

These are the characters in the dream, beside yourself…

Geckos, Grass, Property, Cell Phone, Hand, Wound

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Hand

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Hand, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I look good, then I get hurt!  Then my cut becomes bigger and bigger!

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

That I can do so many things!  I can massage, I can cook, I can clean, I can touch, feel.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I don’t like my wound!  I can’t write.  Maybe that’s a weakness.

Hand, you are in Sara’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right?  Hand, what aspect of Sara do you represent or most closely personify?

The inner open wounds that Sara has.

Such as what, Hand?

Humiliation since childhood, the wounds that were caused by mother making Sara have a bad conscience all the time, feeling guilty all the time.  The wounds of silence, of (her mother) not speaking when she addressed the sexual abuse by her step-father.

Hand, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I would just like to have my wound closed.  I want to be healthy and flexible without this wound.

Gecko, why did you jump up and attack Sara and open her wrist?

I don’t know what I was going for.  It was something in her hand that I thought she shouldn’t have in her hand.  I don’t think I was trying to hurt her…

But it doesn’t sound like you were successful…

Yes, I was!  I knocked it out of her hand!

What do you think about this wound that wouldn’t heal but kept opening, Gecko?

I think that’s strange!  I was gone, so I can’t tell you about the rest of the dream…

Gecko, why did you want to knock this telephone out of her hand?

It got on my nerves!

You’re a pretty irritable Gecko!  Why did it get on your nerves?

I was in the vicinity with my pal.  I was close to Sara and I felt very good.

So what got on your nerves? Was it the ringing?  Was it Sara’s mother’s calling?

Yes, very probably!

So are you implying that Sara shouldn’t be communicating with all people or only particular people?

Only particular people, like her family.

Who is getting on your tooth, Gecko? (In German, to get on your nerves is to “get on your tooth.”)

It is getting on her nerves that Sara has a guilty conscience about breaking off the contact with her mother and with her family.  It’s her family calling, saying that it may be the last chance Sara has of spending time with her mother before she dies!

What do you think of this message from Sara’s family, Gecko?

It makes me want to puke!

Hand, what do you think about what the Gecko just said?

He’s pretty right!

How do you feel about the Gecko wounding you now, Hand?  Worse?  The same?  Better?

Actually, I feel quite good about it at the moment!  I think that we sometimes need a real good kick, both I and Sara!

In what sense?

To really change things!

What do you think needs to be changed, Hand?

Both I, left hand, but also right hand, think Sara needs to stop having a guilty conscience.  Who knows when I will die? No reason to spend time with her mother just because she might die!   We need to take care of ourselves, more than ever.  That’s what Sara and I should do.  It does not mean becoming megalomaniac and selfish.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Hand, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10

Compassion: 10

Wisdom:   8

Acceptance: 10

Inner Peace: 10

Witnessing: 10

Hand, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

There wouldn’t be a big difference…

How would Sara’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

She would definitely have far more inner peace about everything….She has to stop this worrying about her mother, family, and daughter!  It’s not true compassion and love!  It’s an inner fighting with inner conscience and feelings of guilt!

If you could live Sara life for her, how would you live it differently?

She wouldn’t think about having a bad conscience. She wouldn’t listen to her family that tell her that she should spend time with her mother while she is still alive.

Gecko, what do you think of what the hand just said?

Perfect!  I couldn’t agree more! Fact is, Hand has to tell Sara these things and Sara has to put them into practice

If you could live Sara’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Further training to become a sauna master. I am hoping I’ll be granted this training by the authorities.  I’ll be told tomorrow whether this has been financed for me. I think it’s a great aim and a great job for me!Further training to become a sauna master. I am hoping I’ll be granted this training by the authorities.  I’ll be told tomorrow whether this has been financed for me. I think it’s a great aim and a great job for me!

What would you suggest Sara do if tomorrow she is turned down for further training?

I would just continue my job until Sara can finance it for herself!

Second life issue: Amy, my daughter.  I would love to be able to support my daughter regardless of her father to become more self confident and do things on her own.  Her father won’t allow her to do things on her own.  Instead of protecting her he’s making her incapable of dealing with life. Sara should take Amy by the hand and go see Claudia together!

Why, Hand?

Sara has been changing quite a lot. She has been mentioning Claudia in talks with Amy.  Amy gets this mirrored by other people too. Staying together at Kähnsdorf (Claudia’s country cabin) this summer was a very important time.

Third life issue: I will not concentrate on Bob this time. The issue is my family.  The second time my mother tried to contact me by Skype and for the second time I blocked her, but with a bad feeling. Keep still.  Do nothing!

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

I definitely support all these aims.  Bob does have some importance.

What would you concentrate on, Hand?

I give or I take without fear.  I can say,  “stop” without fear.  I think Sara can learn to do these things too.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Sara to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Where these three life issues are concerned!  If she becomes me in confrontations with Bob. Then she will find it easy to leave!

Gecko, in what life situations would it be most beneficial for Sara to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Change into me when Bob announces that he is going to go on vacation with her and then takes his laptop along!  I would knock the laptop out of his hand!

Hand, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

No! Drama is tiring, superfluous, and doesn’t do anything for inner peace!

What is your secret for staying out of drama?

I am just a Hand, doing what I want to do!  I was the one who blocked two Skype calls in the last couple of day!

Why do you think that you are in Sara’s life in this dream with this wound that kept getting worse?

To show deep inner wounds that come to the surface now.

And what do you think Sara should do with these deep inner wounds now, Hand?

She’s working on them. She’s accepting them. She’s letting them be out in the open more and more!

How is Sara most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

She doesn’t any longer!

I think Sara had this dream because

I think that some recent incidents have attached to these old wounds and made them come to the surface.   They became bigger because she contacted her mother herself because she wanted to take Amy to Lancerote (in the Canaries) over the holidays.  The response was to ask if Sara had a screw loose because Sara asked her mother to partly pay for her grand-daughter’s trip.  Sara’s mother said, I have enough money to go on holiday any time I like but if you ask me for money to go on holiday with your daughter, you won’t get a penny.”

The lucidity happened in the dream because…

It means that what is required is self-confidence and that the wounds can just close and heal.  The way I see Sara in the dream is that she is getting more self-confident so she can just shake off the dream of those wounds from her childhood.

What have you heard yourself say?

The Gecko snatched the cell phone out of my hand because it didn’t want me to be exposed to messages from my family or to react to those messages.

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Find your inner peace!  Let your wounds be your wounds. They may never finally go away completely. Go your own way despite your inner wounds.  Walk your own path without a bad conscience.

There are many interesting things about this dream.  The shark’s tooth, used by the Gecko to both knock the cell phone out of Sara’s hand and to cut her, was given to her as a present by her therapist, Claudia.  It implies that what looks like a destructive act is in fact, not.  This is borne out by what the Gecko and Hand say in the interview.

If we assume that dreams are basically wake-up calls, we find several aspects that support this theory.  The wound is a wake-up call;  that it keeps getting bigger is a wake-up call.  Becoming lucid in a dream is a form of waking up, to be sure, and the failure to maintain lucidity is associated with a return of the wound.  It is evident that the purpose of the lucidity in the dream is not lucidity in the dream.  The lucidity is for the purpose of depicting what the dreamer needs to learn to do in her waking life: wake up to the damage she is doing to herself in opening old wounds when she contacts her family.

Notice that the dream characters that are interviewed are clear and emphatic about this.  While you or I might encourage Sara to forgive, forget, love, and focus on building a new relationship with family, and in particular with mom (who denied the reality of Sara’s childhood molestation by her step-father that Sara’s mom knew about at the time and ignored, and who also constantly manipulated Sara into feeling guilty), these self-aspects are not so understanding.  Basically, they view mom and family members that encourage Sara to contact mom as toxic.  They want her to cut off all communication with them – at least until she can get over feeling guilty about not talking to them.

Notice that these self-aspects are interested in Sara and Sara’s welfare, not in what other people think she ought to do.  Notice that Hand scores very high in the six core qualities, which implies that it has greater access to them than Sara does, and therefore deserves to be listened to.  Notice that this judgment is validated by the other interviewed self-aspect, Gecko.

Whether or not Sara is able to make her wound go away in her dream is not important.  If she could maintain lucidity and keep the wound gone, what would that solve?  Would that mean that she had the ability to do the same with the wounds from her childhood?  That is unlikely.  What is much more likely is that she would be using her lucidity to repress the wake-up call that the dream depicts.  She would not only not be understanding the dream, but she would encourage the externalization of the nightmare of the wound in some other, more difficult to ignore/repress form in her life, like an accident, illness, or interpersonal conflict.  Fortunately, Sara is choosing to listen, which is a way of practicing upstream prevention that reduces the likelihood of waking suffering and stress.

I am in a garden looking at three large white stones.  I am lucid, meaning that I know that I am dreaming.  I watch as the stones stand up on “legs” and sing, to the tune of “Shine on, Harvest Moon,” “Sign on, Sign on the bottom line…”

I knew they were encouraging me to go with the fellow that I had interviewed the day before, but I didn’t want to be misled and have my financial life built around say, a bit of undigested tofu.  So I did something I never realized was possible before I took Dr. Dillard’s course: I asked the stones questions.  I asked the first stone, “Who are you?”  It answered, “I represent your parents.”  I then asked the same question of the second stone.  It said, “I represent your grandparents.”  Then I asked the third stone the same question.  It said, “I am your friends and mentors.”  In the dream I thought, “If the three cornerstones of my life are telling me I have to do this, then I need to do it.”

“In the following days I handed my money over to this fellow, feeling a strange sense of ease and acceptance about it, something that is unusual for me around letting go of money and control over it.

Four months later I was starting to get a divorce.  It would have been a disaster for me to have been trying to manage my money and to also go through the emotional turmoil of that time.

That year ended up being the second best financial year I had.  This fellow turned my five million into six.”

This dreamer did not simply go lucid.  He used his lucidity not to change the dream but to have the presence of mind to ask characters in the dream about issues of concern to him. The results were transformative for him. Not only did he know the “meaning” of the dream, but it resulted in a course of action that had huge repercussions for his financial security for the rest of his life.

In this dream this talented dreamer did not use his dream wakefulness to change his dream or to practice, in an environment free from consequence, some skill set which he wanted to develop, as is often advocated as a benefit and use of lucid dreaming. Instead he suspended his waking desires and agenda, asked questions, and listened. What he learned as a result made a huge difference in his life. Would that information have bubbled up into consciousness on its own without lucidity or without practicing IDL in his dream? Possibly. However, what Felix did was become a conscious co-creator and supporter of a pattern that wanted to express itself in his life. By doing so, he increased both the likelihood that would happen and placed himself in a position of awareness and understanding that allowed him to benefit all the more.

This is not a dream about going lucid; it’s a dream about the motivations to go lucid – why a person may want to and what benefits they might receive from doing so. When we wake up, the next question is, “What are we going to do?” The answer Felix gives himself in this dream is, “Be creative and loving.  Love yourself!”

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. How to deal with frustration and turn it into a useful tool.

2. Dealing with Annie.

3. Lucid dreaming more.

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

I was in a university setting attending a conference about medical businesses.  After a long conference of sophisticated people from academia and business we decided to go for a ride along a beautiful mountain ridge with spectacular views like the Blue Ridge Parkway.  We had some difficulty getting up to the road because there was a rough patch and the car was not made for it.  I was a good enough driver to get us around the rough patch.  We were congratulating ourselves for our ability to understand what was going on in this medical conference because we could disseminate the information to less sophisticated people with a great deal of ease. When we get to the top of the ridge the road is completely blocked by six large tree stumps.  There are no roots on them.  They are like a six foot tall tree wall. They have been transported there and put there to block the road. They are very uniform.  This dream scene was quite vivid.  The scenery was all green and then I saw these brown tree stumps straddling the two-lane road.  There is no possibility to go around them. Behind the tree stumps are three older American cars – Pontiacs, Oldmobiles, Mercury types from the late 70’s.  One’s red, one’s white, and one is blue.  I got really frustrated and then I woke up.

Why do you think that you had this dream?

Alan Wallace (Tibetan monk lecturer on lucid dreaming) had said in his lecture to become aware in your dream of your location, what you’re doing, who you are (role), and how you are feeling.  I meditated on frustration for the next half hour. Everything that’s frustration in my life came up.  How do I get my relationship with Annie on track?  She lives on a Ridge and works in a university setting.  I talked to her last night.  I have everything available to me to start dealing with my frustration and learn to be more lucid in my dreams and make my life more magical, to see that everything is a dream.  At that point I can start manipulating the dream.

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

Stumped Again!

These are the characters in the dream…

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

The tree stumps.

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Tree Stumps, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

There are six of us. We are wood. We were uprooted.  As we were laying on our sides our root structure was cut off at what would be two feet underground, so it’s flat.  Our tops are about six feet tall and very thick. We are cut off again at the top.  It looks like a crew cut.  We are uniformly lined up so we occupy the width of entire street so no one can get by.  Felix tried to move us and got to the third one, in the middle after he had successfully moved two, that he couldn’t move me.  He tried to physically move me, like the first two.  Then he got a crow bar and tried to leverage me but I wasn’t moving.  He thought about using dynamite but he didn’t know where he could get any.  He tried to move me by pushing me with the car but that didn’t work, so that thoroughly frustrated him.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

We are good-looking, we are strong, we don’t move. When we are put somewhere we stay, like we’re supposed to.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

No flexibility.  No give.  No nothing.  We are just here, like government regulations.  Termites, wood rot, old age, death, death, disease. But at this point we are good and solid.

Stumps, you are in this person’s life experience, correct?  He created you, right?  Tree stumps, what aspect of Felix do you represent or most closely personify?

The part of him that puts up blocks when he allows himself to get frustrated.

Tree stumps, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

As part of Felix, we wish we could be supportive instead of obstacles.  But we are fairly impersonal.  We do what we do because we are what we are.

Why is this road blocked in the first place?

The people up the road don’t want to share.  There is another way out.  They don’t want through traffic.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 We know what we’re doing.

Compassion:   5 We don’t care one way or the other.  We’re just here.

Wisdom:   8

Acceptance:   9 We’re here just because we’re here.  Our self-acceptance is high.

Inner Peace:   9

Witnessing: 10 We can sit and watch it all go by all the time!

Tree stumps, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

Compassion was low. We don’t care much about anything.  If we were a ten we would be more flexible, more able to move and be creative. We could become an arch or bridge or gateway or the interior of something.  We could become whatever form we wanted to be really compassionately helpful. We could turn ourselves into wings that one could put on the side of the car so it could fly.  We could help Felix.

Weren’t you put there because you weren’t compassionate and because you had a firm structure?

Yes.  We were put there as an obstacle.   We were put there because of our lack of compassion.  When we think about it, our acceptance is very low because of what we are doing.  It’s not true that we were high in acceptance. We are at 2’s or 1’s.

How would the life of the person who created you be different if he naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

He could do lucid dreaming.  That would propel him down the road of understanding what he wants to do really quickly.  It’s a very creative way of dealing with what is in front of him.  He would know the illusory nature of existence and could experiment with it on all forms and levels.  It would all be play, like being surrounded by fifth graders.  (I used to teach fifth grade.)  He’d have so much fun!

If you could live the life of the person who created you for him, how would you live it differently?

I would encourage him to become more and more creative in everything he does.  That is the hallmark of being alive and staying alive.  That helps others to do the same – to stay alive.  When it comes time for them to die it helps them to do so with constant awareness and to go into their next life with love and compassion.

If you could live this person’s waking life for him today, would you handle his three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Frustration: With awareness!  With lucidity!  He would be able to be highly creative very quickly now, in real time.  The frustrations would be tools to help him become more creative rather than be perceived as obstacles.

2. Annie: by doing the above – it’s the nature of what she does – if Felix is creative she will be more drawn to him.

3. More lucid dreaming: As he becomes more lucid the access to creativity becomes more pronounced and becomes a circle that feeds on itself.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his life?

They would stay the same.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for this person to imagine that they are you and act as you would?

Whenever he’s dreaming to recognize that frustration is a key to creativity.  Also when he’s awake.  Things then change!  His perspective changes, that of those who he is talking to changes. Then he can help people more!

Why do you think that you are in this person’s life?

Because we represent those frustrations he hasn’t figured out how to deal with. We are an opportunity for him to address these issues.

How isFelix most likely to ignore what you are saying to them?

Fall asleep! Forget that everything is a dream!  When he gets frustrated, angry, and hurt to draw back in, pull back in, when the opposite is what he needs to do.

What would you recommend that they do about that?

He should instead take several deep breaths, relax as much as possible, and let us clear the road by ourselves. We’ll move out of the way.

What about those red, white, and blue cars, tree stumps?

They have their keys in the ignition!  They won’t be that much of an obstacle. They are vehicles!  They will carry him where he needs to go!  He needs to go to a patriotic place.  He needs a larger vision of what it means to be an American.  It’s been built too much around economics.  It’s a further barrier that he needs to address.  The medical conference was about sophistication of finance and how Felix was self-congratulatory about how much he knows.  It’s where Felix was most comfortable with his expertise.

I think this person had this dream because

He is in the position of opening up relatively quickly to new ideas and more aware of blocks to awareness.  We are just another thing in the road that needs to be addressed.

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

The residents down the road remind Felix of Jupiter Island, Florida, an enclave of very rich people who don’t want a road running all the way through it.  It’s well guarded.  You only see vegetation or a driveway or mailbox.  You rarely see a house.  We are tools of the people down the road. They represent a part of Felix that has used his awareness of economics to defend the system.  That lets him live on “Jupiter Island.”  But now that doesn’t seem to be working for him.  It’s now blocking him toward more creativity.

What have you heard yourself say?

It rings very true.  I have used my economic knowledge as a tool to think like these people to hang out here.  But once you’ve gotten there, so what?  It’s not creative.  You can just get more stuff.  And stuff is stuff. Whereas the real creativity is within.  The real healing of oneself and others is within and doesn’t have much to do with that stuff.  I’ve got to unblock myself and that can help others as well.  It has to do with becoming more aware. Then things emerge.  People tell me I’m an inspiration.  I have more support than I realize.  I am just not aware of it.  It’s pretty humbling (cries). I just overlooked this.

Tree stumps, what are Felix’s humble feelings and his tears about?

Recognition that he’s just ignored and not appreciated and not taken into account how much love and kindness there has been in his life.

If he had, what difference would that have made?

He would have had a much richer interior life and been much more aware of what was going on around him.

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Tree Stump: Treat Felix with loving kindness.  He responds to that so very, very strongly.  He needs to treat himself that way much more than he does.  He tends to be much harder on himself than he needs to.  Just to treat himself as a human being.  It’s something he has to work on a lot.

Do you have anything else you want to say to Felix right now, Tree Stump?

Remember you’re loved!

I was in some sort of building where a lot of people were sleeping.  I would say it might be something like a hostel.  Then I was riding with someone – a woman? There were others in the car, I think.  She took it straight up the top of a tall building.  At the top I knew it was too vertical to land on top of the building. Instead it arced over and was headed back toward the ground.  I was thinking, “Thanks for a great life” when I woke up.

So Car, how do you feel about how this dream went?

Car: Terrible!

I suppose you would change it so that you didn’t get driven up the building.

Car: Definitely!

Well then, I guess I need to talk to the lady that was driving… Lady, why did you drive the car up the side of the building?

Lady: Why not?  It’s a dream, isn’t it?

So are you saying that in the dream you knew it was a dream and you weren’t afraid because you knew no one would die?

Lady: Yes!

So what do you think Joseph should have done about you driving the car up the side of the building?

Lady: Relax and enjoy the ride!  Instead of waking up he could have used it to go lucid, for instance!!!

Any recommendations about waking life?

Lady: Just the same:  Relax and enjoy the ride.  Don’t get stressed out or worried about anything.  Who you really are can’t die.  Use everything to help you wake up more!

Good advice.  OK.  Thank you, Lady!

From the point of view of this self-aspect, rather than emphasizing dream lucidity per se, lucid dreaming is about learning to wake up in whatever state we are in.  While our waking identity clearly differentiates between dreaming and waking states most of the time, that distinction seems less important to many self-aspects.

Surfing Your Way Out of Your Life Nightmare

I am in a jail.  I have to take care of people on death row.  I’m not a prisoner but I’m not a caretaker.  I’m something in-between.  I am taking care of people in the last hours before they go to the electric chair.  One of them is a former male friend.  He knows that he will die in a few hours.  I have to cheer him up.  (Crying).  It’s not a good time for me.  It’s dark with all the fear of losing him.  I have to tell him that I love him and that he’s a good guy.  I have to cheer him up for his last hours.    It’s awful.  Then they take him out of the room and take him to kill him.  I have to stay there until they bring him back dead.  I try to wake up because I realize it’s a nightmare, but I can’t stop dreaming.  I knew I was dreaming but I couldn’t wake up; I couldn’t stop it. The next person is my grandmother.  I have to take care of her.  They take her and kill her and I have to wait for the body to come back on a stretcher.  Then I woke up, went back to sleep and the same thing was happening to other people. Even with waking up I couldn’t stop this nightmare.

Notice that going lucid accomplishes nothing for this dreamer.  There is no freedom, no control, no autonomy, no ability to change anything.  Instead, what is experienced is that the nightmare embraces everyday consciousness, as is the case with post-traumatic stress disorders.  Also, notice that going lucid is a failed attempt by the dreamer to rescue herself from the drama triangle by waking up.  Instead of avoiding persecution and victimization by waking up, it is merely extended to other examples in other parts of her life, stressing the pervasive nature of the nightmare.

Lucidity can be an attempt at self-rescue which succeeds in keeping one stuck in the drama triangle while exerting the worldview of a stuck waking identity into the dream state. Integral Deep Listening honors the nightmare of your life by giving it the respect of suspending judgment, listening, and applying what makes sense.  Instead of changing the nightmare to conform to your assumptions of happiness, both the nightmare and your waking identity learn to conform to the culture of a transcending and inclusive intrasocial reality.

For more, see lucid dreaming and Some Challenges to Some Assumptions About Lucid Dreaming.

(From Integral Deep Listening and Meditation)

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Mark had just begun studying to become a Practitioner of Integral Deep Listening.  He shared the following life issues.  “No matter how much I work I break even every month!” “I’m going to be a father!”  “I’m going to be a single parent!”

These issues do not, on the surface, look like they have anything to do with meditation.  However, on closer examination, that conclusion seems to be more a result of limits in our understanding of meditation than it has to do with meditation itself.  Consider Mark’s dream:

I am sitting on a hard wood floor.  All around me in this room are cold stone walls going up about thirty feet.  There is no visible light source.  It’s dim.  I am sitting in a meditation posture, meditating.  I see the figure of a man, sinewy, dark face, with pointed, very defined features.  It’s not the face of a man; more the face of a monster!  It scares me!  Then all of a sudden he’s levitating in front of me and he communicates with me!  I instantly realize that this is my guru, my spiritual teacher!  I realize I have nothing to fear!  I realize this entity is going to take me to the ever-loving bliss of God! Slowly I start to levitate with him, but not with my body.  It’s almost as if my essence is coming up!  As it does, I feel this raw ecstatic joy, love, and bliss.  I can’t even describe how it felt!  A feeling of oneness with the universe!  I know I am stepping out of dualism and that my time is up in material creation and that I am starting to merge with the infinite!

Most meditators would like to have an experience like Mark had in this dream.  Many people would like to find the right spiritual teacher or Guru to teach them how to be one with the divine.  Why don’t they?  Well, the fact is, they probably already do; they just don’t know it.

I am referring to the community of self-aspects that are called internal Sangha members in Integral Deep Listening.  A “sangha” is a Pali Buddhist word that refers to a spiritual community.  In Integral Deep Listening, students learn to work with an internal sangha of self-aspects that are advisors in all areas of personal development.  As you learn to do so, you receive the guidance that you need to meditate effectively.

The very fact that this powerfully transformative experience came in a dream tells us that dreams can and do teach us about meditation.  If Mark had not remembered this dream he still would have had it.  That implies that you are most likely having dreams that can and do help you with your spiritual development every night that you do not remember.  How might your life be different if you not only remembered such dream experiences but used Integral Deep Listening to listen to them, understand them, heal your blockages, and identify with those aspects of yourself, like Mark’s Guru, that already are where you want to be in your development?

When Mark imagined that he was the Guru it said,  

I like my face.  I dislike that my face scares him, but he needs to see that which is beneath appearances.  I could have come as anything.  I chose this persona to teach.  I’m here to help Mark reconnect with the infinite.  Self-realization. Mark has desire in his heart and his soul to find the truth.  He has desire to escape limitations that he places on himself.  In his heart he called to me so I have come to him.  I go about levitating because I am one with the universe.  I can be anywhere, anything, at any time.  I can be a man floating in the air!

Notice that spirit was not afraid to scare Mark, if that is what it took to wake him up. Mark might have wanted to change this dream so that say, the Guru wouldn’t scare him or so that he became the Guru or so that all his waking problems were solved.  But this is not what the Guru said when asked.  Instead, he said,

If I could change this dream I would leave it as it is.

I most closely personify Mark’s higher self.  He needs to see his higher self as a monster because that’s how he wants to see me in the moment.  He’s still afraid of the future, he’s still afraid of letting go.  So in his fear he creates a monster!  My greatest strengths are my oneness with everything, my total realization and understanding of the universe.  The reason why I am in this dream is to show Mark that there is hope, that his spiritual development does not have to be done alone and that he is always loved, forever, and that connection is never broken.

Notice that this Guru, which says that it personifies Mark’s potential identity, does not tell Mark things that he does not already know.  Instead, he places emphasis on attitudes, perspectives, and behaviors that represent different priorities.  The shifts can be subtle, but they make all the difference in the world for the speed of Mark’s spiritual development and his future success learning to meditate.

If I were in charge of Mark’s life I wouldn’t change it. He’s doing what he needs to do right now.  He changed some things recently and it was exactly what he needed to do.   Regarding money, his faith in spirit is strong but his patience is weak.  He has little patience.  He is learning to experience and have patience and realize that what he desires will come to him when he needs it to.  He must continue to do what he is doing, having faith and being patient, not letting anxiety overcome his reason.  Let it out, let it go, and give it away! He is going to be a good father, but he knows that.  Regarding being a single father, this situation will take care of itself.  Nothing is needed to do, just to be and to go with it. Mark and Julia learned what they needed to learn.  Now they need to be separate to learn what they need to learn.  Mark already knows that the child is Indigo and that the most important thing he can do is show unconditional love.  He doesn’t yet know how to show it but he’s getting it.

You may be thinking, “But isn’t this just Mark imagining things?  Isn’t this just Mark just telling himself things that he already knows?  What’s so special about that?  Isn’t he just reassuring himself with comfortable expressions that validate who he already thinks that he is?”

Such skepticism is healthy, natural, and necessary.  It is to be encouraged.  That is because Integral Deep Listening as a psychospiritual methodology.  The statements of interviewed self-aspects must be put to the test within the test tube of your own life.  Integral Deep Listening is the catalyst; when the experiment is performed, healing, balancing, and transformation are likely to be the result.

Mark will benefit from identifying with me by realizing that I am always here, that he will grow into me, and we will be one. He just needs to keep smiling and laughing.  Play a little more!  His lower self has been neglected a little.  Follow his heart.   Regarding Integral Deep Listening, it’s a wonderful thing for him to learn.  He will learn higher forms of meditation and self-realization.  His desire to help others will lead him into teaching things that will help them know themselves.

This interview did not solve all of Mark’s problems.  It was not a magic cure.  He still had to do all the heavy lifting and to make the hard decisions of his life.  But it did powerfully influence Mark.  He went forward with his life knowing that he was not alone and that he had powerful sources of inner support and direction that he could access anytime that were natural meditators, even if he was not.  He now knew there were parts of himself that wanted to help him to learn to meditate and to bring spirit more fully into his everyday experience.

Integral Deep Listening teaches you to look at your life from the perspective of your innermost, most sacred potentials.  This is meditative consciousness, and it evolves as you learn to practice deep listening to aspects of yourself, particularly those which score high in six core qualities that personify our highest potentials as humans.  From this experience, Mark learned a number of truths that helped him to understand how to meditate more successfully.  He learned that the Guru he was seeking is within himself, that he avoids spiritual awakening because the seeming unattainability of that state intimidates him.  This is personified by the scary face of the Guru.  Part of Mark intuitively knows that to transform, he must die, and death scares the limited waking self whom we normally think that we are. Mark received a powerful message of love and support and understood better that he needs to look beneath the surface of how things seem to him.

Acceptance is another key message from the Guru: “Let it out, let it go, and give it away!”  Mark gained a deep inner sense that his life is on the right track, that he is headed in the right direction despite his worries about his impending parenthood and financial struggles.