The following provides an excellent example of how your inner compass does not discriminate between night time dreams and waking life the way that you do. It is a dream of drowning based on a real life near drowning by Ingrid, a six year old girl at the beginning of World War II in Germany. In this case, the dream of being submerged in the water merges with the waking dream of almost drowning. From the perspective of Ingrid’s inner compass, both realms are equally opportunities to stimulate growth through wake-up calls. Both dreaming and waking life are equally opportunities for us to grow into a greater identity through listening to and growing into a broader sense of who we are.

There is also considerable help in this interview for understanding dreams of water, how threat is often misperceived, the impact of enculturation, and how needless, avoidable fears can be carried around for decades because of a mistaken perception of life and dream events.

As a child Ingrid thought almost drowning was punishment for disobeying her mother and sneaking out and going swimming. She has been afraid of water ever since, although she loved it before this accident, and although during the experience of drowning itself she was not afraid.

Here is an interpretive summarization of the interview for Ingrid. Read it over as if it was meant for you, too. Then, if you want to understand the interview in more detail, you will find it below. Of course, an interview with your own water will have its own unique perspective and generate different recommendations, created especially for you.

There is a liquid, flowing part of yourself that you are separated from, that only experiences itself. It puts you in touch with infinity, nature, and a wider view of life. It is fluid and is constantly moving, and clear. Nothing disturbs this part of you. This is a neutral part of yourself.  It wants to stay clear and pure. Its power is to separate. It is abundant. It is very confident because it cannot die; it only transforms. All life comes out of this part of yourself.

This is a part of yourself that is not very compassionate. Perhaps you have to become less “socially” compassionate before you can recognize and create real compassion. To find life happiness and contentment it recommends that you care more about yourself and becoming one with yourself. For health, it encourages you to drink at least two liters of water a day.  It is a part of you that does not think about needing a lot of money but just having enough.  It recommends you focus on stopping doing things that pollute your body or mind. Consider the possibility of polluting thoughts, feelings, and relationships not just actions, like what you eat. Avoid putting conflictual things into yourself, such as you do when you argue with yourself or waste energy feeling angry. Don’t disturb your inner peace with  activities that take advantage of it!

This is a part of yourself that usually respects natural limits and boundaries and doesn’t waste much energy in feelings of separation. It recommends that you become it when you want to increase your confidence, because it scores higher in confidence than you do. Doing so will allow you to be more neutral and to have less compassion, which will allow you to focus on yourself and find your own inner peace. It considers itself worth your trust. It can, will, and does support you, but to know that you have to take the first step toward trusting it. Trust your daughter Claudia to help you grow in confidence to trust this part of yourself. (Claudia has years of experience in teaching people to be comfortable in the ocean snorkeling. She leads dolphin excursions to Bimini, in the Bahamas.)

It is telling you that as a child you did not feel seen, acknowledged, or loved by your mother or your sister. You weren’t looking for them to rescue you from this part of yourself, but simply to be recognized for who you were. You were as clear about that as you could be.

From the perspective of the water, almost drowning had nothing to do with punishment or disobedience. It also becomes clear that the water was not attempting to scare you or kill you either. It was simply being itself.

Every time you read over this interview you will strengthen your contact with your own sense of who you are. You will internalize its confidence and move toward a healthier balance between compassion for others and love of yourself.  Practice becoming the water whenever you want to feel more confident and trust yourself more.

The Interview, from which the above remarks are derived:

How can that long ago life event and repetitive dream help Ingrid heal her fear of the water today? We start, as always, by making the questioning process as practical and useful as possible by asking Ingrid to share three life issues that affect her today.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

Life happiness – contentment; to stay that way

Health for me and my family

Money – enough to take care of needs; not necessarily to be rich

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

When I was six years old I had started school. It was at the beginning of WW II in Germany. I liked to go swimming at a public swimming pool. My mother didn’t allow me to go that afternoon. I don’t know why. But I took my swimming suit and a little money and went alone. I always went there alone. We played tag in the water and I was moving very fast. My feet slipped on the ground and I fell over on my back. I couldn’t get my feet under me to stand up.  I swallowed a lot of water. The girl that was after me in the game was the only one that saw that I was in trouble. She took me out of the water and put me under a warm shower. At home, during the night I couldn’t sleep because I hadn’t obeyed. I wanted to tell my mother what had happened; I told her I almost drowned that afternoon. After that I often had the dream that I was lying on the floor of the swimming pool with clear water above me. I saw  my mother and sister walking past. I tried to stretch my arm out so that they could see me but the water was just too deep to reach out of the water. They never saw me. I repetitively had that dream. I forgot all about that story and that dream for years.

Why do you think that you had this dream?

There was a feeling of being separated from my mother and my sister. I didn’t have fear when I was drowning. At that moment I knew that everything was over, that it was the end. It wasn’t fear but I was conscious of the end of life.

That’s interesting, because whenever you tell of your fear of water you tell that story!

I think I may have felt that I was punished for disobeying my mother. But I loved to go into the water before that. I was called “Water Rat!” After that, I thought everyone in the world knew how to swim but me. Before a holiday to Italy when I was a young adult I was wondering whether to get an inflatable swimming suit, so no one would notice I could not swim. But instead I decided to take swimming lessons before the holiday. I went there every day for several weeks. My teacher had me jump off a one meter board, which was very scary. All the men at the pool were watching me, so I forced myself to jump and swim to the edge. I thought I was the only one in the world that couldn’t swim! When I went to Italy I was not scared of the water and actually even went in when there were waves.

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Water!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Water, are you a character in Ingrid’s dream and life, yes?

Yes!

Water, look out at the world from your perspective and tell us what you see…

I only experience myself – liquid!

Water, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I move to and fro. Sometimes there is wind and I’ll be a little higher and not like a mirror. I’m used to all these different states. Nothing disturbs that. My movement is very important to me.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

That I can jump and move! I can take things away! I can make things like wood move. It’s like being in neutral. I’m not aware that fish need me to live. I haven’t thought about that until now.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

That I’m getting polluted!

Water, you are in Ingrid’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right?  Water, what aspect of Ingrid do you represent or most closely personify?

Danger, but not really…I have the power to separate.

Water, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I would like to stay as I am. I have power. My power is to separate. I am deep enough. There’s plenty of me.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 8 Because I’m everywhere! When I evaporate I come down as water again! I don’t vanish!

Compassion: 3 My compassion is not very developed…

Wisdom: 7 I have a lot of experience; I’m very old. All life comes out of me. That makes me proud but also powerful. I don’t care whether people get drowned…

Acceptance: 6

Inner Peace: 8 Nothing upsets me. I am as I am!

Witnessing: 6

Water, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I don’t think I’d be much different.

How would Ingrid’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

I don’t think she would be much different.

If you could live Ingrid’s life for her, how would you live it differently?

Maybe I would concentrate more on my compassion for life around me. Ingrid’s compassion is higher than mine.

If you could live Ingrid’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Life happiness – contentment; to stay that way.

You can only be happy if you’re one with yourself. That she will care more about herself. It could be more!

Health for me and my family

With the help of drinking at least two liters of water a day! Her body is mostly made out of me!

Money – enough to take care of needs; not necessarily to be rich

As water I don’t have to think about money. Just having enough!

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

1. Pollution of myself! Ending it!

2. It’s important to me that the circle of life remains undisturbed and that humans stop stirring me up by putting all sorts of weapons and military systems inside of me.

3. I don’t like people treasure hunting in me. I want my peace, please!

Do you feel separated from anything, Water?

I feel separated from land. Sometimes I go and try to catch some. So people build dams.

If you were Ingrid, how would you handle this issue of separation. Like she does, or differently?

I wouldn’t do anything! I did everything I could towards it.

Ingrid has had a fear of you in her life, Water. How would you handle that fear if you were her?

I could offer to have her try to be in me to gain confidence.

Why should she trust you? You’re imaginary!

I support her! I could show her that I am able to carry her. She has to try it first to gain that confidence.

Do you think Ingrid could or should trust her daughter, who has taught many people to be confident in water?

Definitely, yes.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Ingrid to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Not to care so much; to be more neutral.  It would help Ingrid to not have too much compassion.

Why do you think that Ingrid had those dreams when she was a child?

She wanted to be seen, to be acknowledged! It wasn’t about needing to be rescued!

Why do you think that you are in Ingrid’s life?

She likes me. She likes the sea. It has no limits! The infinity to the horizon. I can show her or give her that. Reflections of the sky and the clouds. I can show her a wider view.

I think her mother and daughter did not acknowledge her in her dream because…

She did not feel loved by her mother and her sister.

What have you heard yourself say?

I remember that I don’t care that much what’s happening around me as water.  I don’t care about anything, really.  Water said I want to have a relationship with it. I feel like water is trying to make for a relationship with me. It’s a difficult relationship, it seems…

Water, do you think it is a difficult relationship with Ingrid?

Not for me. It’s because Ingrid doesn’t trust me.

Water, were you punishing Ingrid because she disobeyed her mother?

Definitely not! I’m neutral! I witness!

Water, why do you think Ingrid had a strong urge to tell her mother she ha disobeyed her, gone swimming, and almost drowned?

Because she experienced fear and wanted to be comforted.

Water, how do you feel about Ingrid not trusting you?

It’s a pity! All I can do is wait, be patient! You can’t force anything! Try and find out for yourself! If she comes to me I can show her I can carry her and support her. That’s the first step!

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

I’ve always lacked confidence. Maybe the waking call is, “Go and try it!” The water is very clear. The water tried everything it could to support me and be clear. Those two couldn’t see me. Maybe there is something wrong with them.

When everyone in the dream is a part of you it means that there are two parts of yourself (mother and sister) that don’t see you. The issue is that you are not recognizing or acknowledging a part or parts of yourself that want and need to be seen, accepted, and made part of your life.

What does a useful lucid dream look like?  The following dream, which has a lucid portion, may change or expand your thoughts on the purposes of dream lucidity. The lucidity itself is not of particular benefit in the dream because it is neither understood by the dreamer, nor does it accomplish anything of lasting value.  In fact, its inability to create lasting change is itself an important part of its function. (Comments follow the interview…Feel free to add your own!)

None of this is understood or appreciated until the dream is interviewed.  Without the interview, the significance of the lucidity, as well as the dream, are largely missed.  You can test this statement for yourself.  Read over the following dream and make your best guess as to what it is about and what the significance is of the lucidity.  It would be best if you wrote down your interpretation/prediction so that you can’t go back later and say, after you have read the interview, “That’s what I thought all along!”  Either you wrote it and you knew or you didn’t write it and you didn’t know.  Fair enough?

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

I was on a small property, all very green. There were two very big, bright red geckos with black triangles on their backs.  Very big, very fleshy, but they were kind!  I wasn’t afraid of them.  In the dream I thought, ”Amazing!  How beautiful they are!  How fascinating!”  I think I had my cell phone in my hand.  One of these lizards sprang up and had a tooth like my shark’s tooth hanging out of his mouth.  He went for this cell phone but he scratched my wrist in the process. In my dream I looked at this cut.  It didn’t even bleed.  I thought, “That’s not a big cut.”  I kept walking and every now and then I would look at my hand.  The cut opened up more and more, each time I looked at it.  I could see my flesh, my arteries and veins. My whole wrist opened up until I could look down at the bone.

In the dream I then told myself that this was a dream. “I am dreaming this!”  I was trying to shake this wrist injury off.  I was sitting in the green grass, telling myself, “I’m just dreaming this.”  Then the injury was gone.  Sitting in this grass, I looked around myself and said,”I’m still not awake…”  Then I looked at my wrist and the wound had returned!  I thought, “Oh no!  It’s disgusting!”  “What‘s happening here?”  Why is this wound on my wrist?”  I woke up shaking my wrist and trying to get rid of the wound again!

So, before you read any further, write down what this dream would be about if you had it.  What would be the significance of the episode of lucidity?

Why do you think that you had this dream?

This one I’ve been kept busy thinking about for the last week and a half.  I haven’t written it down because it’s so disgusting… It was the night after I got this shark tooth present from Claudia…I think it was disgusting!  There was a fear that my hand might fall off.  A fear of being disabled.  This was my left hand.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. Further training to become a sauna master. I am hoping I’ll be granted this training by the authorities.  I’ll be told tomorrow whether this has been financed for me.

2. Amy, my daughter.  I would love to be able to support my daughter regardless of her father to become more self confident and do things on her own.  Her father won’t allow her to do things on her own.  Instead of protecting her he’s making her incapable of dealing with life.

3. I will not concentrate on Bob this time. The issue is my family.  The second time my mother tried to contact me by Skype and for the second time I blocked her, but with a bad feeling.

If this dream were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

The Opening Wound

These are the characters in the dream, beside yourself…

Geckos, Grass, Property, Cell Phone, Hand, Wound

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Hand

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Hand, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I look good, then I get hurt!  Then my cut becomes bigger and bigger!

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

That I can do so many things!  I can massage, I can cook, I can clean, I can touch, feel.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I don’t like my wound!  I can’t write.  Maybe that’s a weakness.

Hand, you are in Sara’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right?  Hand, what aspect of Sara do you represent or most closely personify?

The inner open wounds that Sara has.

Such as what, Hand?

Humiliation since childhood, the wounds that were caused by mother making Sara have a bad conscience all the time, feeling guilty all the time.  The wounds of silence, of (her mother) not speaking when she addressed the sexual abuse by her step-father.

Hand, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I would just like to have my wound closed.  I want to be healthy and flexible without this wound.

Gecko, why did you jump up and attack Sara and open her wrist?

I don’t know what I was going for.  It was something in her hand that I thought she shouldn’t have in her hand.  I don’t think I was trying to hurt her…

But it doesn’t sound like you were successful…

Yes, I was!  I knocked it out of her hand!

What do you think about this wound that wouldn’t heal but kept opening, Gecko?

I think that’s strange!  I was gone, so I can’t tell you about the rest of the dream…

Gecko, why did you want to knock this telephone out of her hand?

It got on my nerves!

You’re a pretty irritable Gecko!  Why did it get on your nerves?

I was in the vicinity with my pal.  I was close to Sara and I felt very good.

So what got on your nerves? Was it the ringing?  Was it Sara’s mother’s calling?

Yes, very probably!

So are you implying that Sara shouldn’t be communicating with all people or only particular people?

Only particular people, like her family.

Who is getting on your tooth, Gecko? (In German, to get on your nerves is to “get on your tooth.”)

It is getting on her nerves that Sara has a guilty conscience about breaking off the contact with her mother and with her family.  It’s her family calling, saying that it may be the last chance Sara has of spending time with her mother before she dies!

What do you think of this message from Sara’s family, Gecko?

It makes me want to puke!

Hand, what do you think about what the Gecko just said?

He’s pretty right!

How do you feel about the Gecko wounding you now, Hand?  Worse?  The same?  Better?

Actually, I feel quite good about it at the moment!  I think that we sometimes need a real good kick, both I and Sara!

In what sense?

To really change things!

What do you think needs to be changed, Hand?

Both I, left hand, but also right hand, think Sara needs to stop having a guilty conscience.  Who knows when I will die? No reason to spend time with her mother just because she might die!   We need to take care of ourselves, more than ever.  That’s what Sara and I should do.  It does not mean becoming megalomaniac and selfish.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Hand, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10

Compassion: 10

Wisdom:   8

Acceptance: 10

Inner Peace: 10

Witnessing: 10

Hand, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

There wouldn’t be a big difference…

How would Sara’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

She would definitely have far more inner peace about everything….She has to stop this worrying about her mother, family, and daughter!  It’s not true compassion and love!  It’s an inner fighting with inner conscience and feelings of guilt!

If you could live Sara life for her, how would you live it differently?

She wouldn’t think about having a bad conscience. She wouldn’t listen to her family that tell her that she should spend time with her mother while she is still alive.

Gecko, what do you think of what the hand just said?

Perfect!  I couldn’t agree more! Fact is, Hand has to tell Sara these things and Sara has to put them into practice

If you could live Sara’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Further training to become a sauna master. I am hoping I’ll be granted this training by the authorities.  I’ll be told tomorrow whether this has been financed for me. I think it’s a great aim and a great job for me!Further training to become a sauna master. I am hoping I’ll be granted this training by the authorities.  I’ll be told tomorrow whether this has been financed for me. I think it’s a great aim and a great job for me!

What would you suggest Sara do if tomorrow she is turned down for further training?

I would just continue my job until Sara can finance it for herself!

Second life issue: Amy, my daughter.  I would love to be able to support my daughter regardless of her father to become more self confident and do things on her own.  Her father won’t allow her to do things on her own.  Instead of protecting her he’s making her incapable of dealing with life. Sara should take Amy by the hand and go see Claudia together!

Why, Hand?

Sara has been changing quite a lot. She has been mentioning Claudia in talks with Amy.  Amy gets this mirrored by other people too. Staying together at Kähnsdorf (Claudia’s country cabin) this summer was a very important time.

Third life issue: I will not concentrate on Bob this time. The issue is my family.  The second time my mother tried to contact me by Skype and for the second time I blocked her, but with a bad feeling. Keep still.  Do nothing!

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

I definitely support all these aims.  Bob does have some importance.

What would you concentrate on, Hand?

I give or I take without fear.  I can say,  “stop” without fear.  I think Sara can learn to do these things too.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Sara to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Where these three life issues are concerned!  If she becomes me in confrontations with Bob. Then she will find it easy to leave!

Gecko, in what life situations would it be most beneficial for Sara to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Change into me when Bob announces that he is going to go on vacation with her and then takes his laptop along!  I would knock the laptop out of his hand!

Hand, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

No! Drama is tiring, superfluous, and doesn’t do anything for inner peace!

What is your secret for staying out of drama?

I am just a Hand, doing what I want to do!  I was the one who blocked two Skype calls in the last couple of day!

Why do you think that you are in Sara’s life in this dream with this wound that kept getting worse?

To show deep inner wounds that come to the surface now.

And what do you think Sara should do with these deep inner wounds now, Hand?

She’s working on them. She’s accepting them. She’s letting them be out in the open more and more!

How is Sara most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

She doesn’t any longer!

I think Sara had this dream because

I think that some recent incidents have attached to these old wounds and made them come to the surface.   They became bigger because she contacted her mother herself because she wanted to take Amy to Lancerote (in the Canaries) over the holidays.  The response was to ask if Sara had a screw loose because Sara asked her mother to partly pay for her grand-daughter’s trip.  Sara’s mother said, I have enough money to go on holiday any time I like but if you ask me for money to go on holiday with your daughter, you won’t get a penny.”

The lucidity happened in the dream because…

It means that what is required is self-confidence and that the wounds can just close and heal.  The way I see Sara in the dream is that she is getting more self-confident so she can just shake off the dream of those wounds from her childhood.

What have you heard yourself say?

The Gecko snatched the cell phone out of my hand because it didn’t want me to be exposed to messages from my family or to react to those messages.

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Find your inner peace!  Let your wounds be your wounds. They may never finally go away completely. Go your own way despite your inner wounds.  Walk your own path without a bad conscience.

There are many interesting things about this dream.  The shark’s tooth, used by the Gecko to both knock the cell phone out of Sara’s hand and to cut her, was given to her as a present by her therapist, Claudia.  It implies that what looks like a destructive act is in fact, not.  This is borne out by what the Gecko and Hand say in the interview.

If we assume that dreams are basically wake-up calls, we find several aspects that support this theory.  The wound is a wake-up call;  that it keeps getting bigger is a wake-up call.  Becoming lucid in a dream is a form of waking up, to be sure, and the failure to maintain lucidity is associated with a return of the wound.  It is evident that the purpose of the lucidity in the dream is not lucidity in the dream.  The lucidity is for the purpose of depicting what the dreamer needs to learn to do in her waking life: wake up to the damage she is doing to herself in opening old wounds when she contacts her family.

Notice that the dream characters that are interviewed are clear and emphatic about this.  While you or I might encourage Sara to forgive, forget, love, and focus on building a new relationship with family, and in particular with mom (who denied the reality of Sara’s childhood molestation by her step-father that Sara’s mom knew about at the time and ignored, and who also constantly manipulated Sara into feeling guilty), these self-aspects are not so understanding.  Basically, they view mom and family members that encourage Sara to contact mom as toxic.  They want her to cut off all communication with them – at least until she can get over feeling guilty about not talking to them.

Notice that these self-aspects are interested in Sara and Sara’s welfare, not in what other people think she ought to do.  Notice that Hand scores very high in the six core qualities, which implies that it has greater access to them than Sara does, and therefore deserves to be listened to.  Notice that this judgment is validated by the other interviewed self-aspect, Gecko.

Whether or not Sara is able to make her wound go away in her dream is not important.  If she could maintain lucidity and keep the wound gone, what would that solve?  Would that mean that she had the ability to do the same with the wounds from her childhood?  That is unlikely.  What is much more likely is that she would be using her lucidity to repress the wake-up call that the dream depicts.  She would not only not be understanding the dream, but she would encourage the externalization of the nightmare of the wound in some other, more difficult to ignore/repress form in her life, like an accident, illness, or interpersonal conflict.  Fortunately, Sara is choosing to listen, which is a way of practicing upstream prevention that reduces the likelihood of waking suffering and stress.

I am in a garden looking at three large white stones.  I am lucid, meaning that I know that I am dreaming.  I watch as the stones stand up on “legs” and sing, to the tune of “Shine on, Harvest Moon,” “Sign on, Sign on the bottom line…”

I knew they were encouraging me to go with the fellow that I had interviewed the day before, but I didn’t want to be misled and have my financial life built around say, a bit of undigested tofu.  So I did something I never realized was possible before I took Dr. Dillard’s course: I asked the stones questions.  I asked the first stone, “Who are you?”  It answered, “I represent your parents.”  I then asked the same question of the second stone.  It said, “I represent your grandparents.”  Then I asked the third stone the same question.  It said, “I am your friends and mentors.”  In the dream I thought, “If the three cornerstones of my life are telling me I have to do this, then I need to do it.”

“In the following days I handed my money over to this fellow, feeling a strange sense of ease and acceptance about it, something that is unusual for me around letting go of money and control over it.

Four months later I was starting to get a divorce.  It would have been a disaster for me to have been trying to manage my money and to also go through the emotional turmoil of that time.

That year ended up being the second best financial year I had.  This fellow turned my five million into six.”

This dreamer did not simply go lucid.  He used his lucidity not to change the dream but to have the presence of mind to ask characters in the dream about issues of concern to him. The results were transformative for him. Not only did he know the “meaning” of the dream, but it resulted in a course of action that had huge repercussions for his financial security for the rest of his life.

In this dream this talented dreamer did not use his dream wakefulness to change his dream or to practice, in an environment free from consequence, some skill set which he wanted to develop, as is often advocated as a benefit and use of lucid dreaming. Instead he suspended his waking desires and agenda, asked questions, and listened. What he learned as a result made a huge difference in his life. Would that information have bubbled up into consciousness on its own without lucidity or without practicing IDL in his dream? Possibly. However, what Felix did was become a conscious co-creator and supporter of a pattern that wanted to express itself in his life. By doing so, he increased both the likelihood that would happen and placed himself in a position of awareness and understanding that allowed him to benefit all the more.

If you had terminal cancer, what would your concerns be?  How about learning to look at life and death from the perspective of spirit?  Live life as a dance! That’s what this fellow is learning to do, already making plans for his next incarnation…In this interview there are practical suggestions about how to put your life into a context that will free and awaken you.

Anvil and Hammer

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. How do I create magic in my life and other people’s lives?

2. How do I dance with people?

3. What’s the best way or ways to serve?

Imagine you are on your deathbed, looking back over your life.  Imagine all your dreams have come true.  What do you see when you look back?  How has your life unfolded?

Oct 12, 2009, in my 62nd year, was the big wakeup call when I became alive.  Maharaji was teaching me everything.  The initial recovery took a few months, the intermediate phase took longer.  I spent some time in India at Maharaji’s ashram where I got the message of what I needed to do for the rest of my life.  It became a dance at that point, an analogy I got from my dance instructor mother.  I learned to treat everyone I meet as a dance partner.  From that point on I danced through the rest of my life.  I gave up a lot of the constrictions I had when I was married.  I became an accomplished yogi that helped others learn how to listen to and follow their own inner path.  This continued for many, many years, accomplishing the things Maharaji wanted me to accomplish.

Now imagine that you are on your deathbed, looking back over your life.  Imagine that NONE of your dreams have come true; in fact, all of your fears have come to pass.  What happened?  How do you feel?

I follow what everybody else tells me to do.  I do what doctors tell me.  I did the chemo, I went to the Prostate support meetings.  I got involved in drug trials, testing new drugs.  The more I did it the fewer people were around me because I didn’t have the energy to be in their lives.  I ended up going into nursing homes because I couldn’t take care of myself.  The money I had got drained away and I died a pauper in pain.

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Black and red!

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

An anvil and hammer.

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Anvil and hammer, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am a standard large anvil, solid steel, weighing at least 500 pounds with a point on one end.  I am almost immovable, powerfully built.  As the hammer, I am good and solid.  I work with my partner to bend things that are very hard, like steel.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

We are dependable, strong. We know what we’re doing. We can bend and shape things.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

We have crappy social lives!  No one comes because they want to hang out with us.  They are only around us because we are tools. We are not desired in and of ourselves.  People don’t quite understand us. They think that if you hit an anvil hard enough it will break. But the hammer is what breaks, not the anvil, if something is going to break.

Hammer and Anvil, you are in Felix’s life experience, correct?  He created you, right? What aspect of Felix do you represent or most closely personify?

Base chakra stuff. Things he’s used for so long.  However, it’s more than that.  It’s any of the chakras.  He knows how to bend things.  He knows how to make things move.

Hammer and Anvil, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

No, we’re happy with who we are.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Hammer and Anvil, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10

Compassion:   5 It’s all bent to the goal, which is more important than compassion.  You just do it.

Wisdom:   5 I don’t learn from the mistakes of others.

Acceptance:   5

Inner Peace:   5

Witnessing: 10

Hammer and Anvil, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

Compassion: He would use us much more judiciously.  If all you have is a hammer and an anvil, then every problem is a horseshoe…However, what he forgets  is that the hammer can beat out gold as well as dross, and shape it finely.

Wisdom: Look at other people! See how they are screwing up and learn from that!

Acceptance: Accept that you can be different and be wise about it!

Inner Peace: Doing the art of goldsmithing rather than working on raw iron!  It would be more gentle and effective!

How would the life of the person who created you be different if he naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

The level of subtlety he would require would be quite pronounced.  Learning the dance is so appropriate for him, dancing with his own self, with the universe, with others.

If you could live the life of the person who created you for him, how would you live it differently?

He’s doing them.  He’s changing all the time!

If you could live this person’s waking life for him today, would you handle his/her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1. Creating magic: Keep dancing!

2. Regarding dancing with more people, keep your mouth shut, don’t think about people, feel them.  When that feeling is prominent, move with the steps that need to be taken.

3. Service:  Turn it over to Maharaji!  It’s his perogative. Be more open to that.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his life?

The same ones.  They are the key to a rich and fulfilling life.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for this person to imagine that they are you and act as you would?

All the time!  There is always a more open and loving way to do things!

Why do you think that you are in this person’s life?

We are an important part of who he is.  We are part of his soul.

What do you think about this person’s nightmare?

It gives his fears a reality that he needs to accept and then choose not to do it.  It can be a choice rather than a destiny.

What do you think about this person’s good dream?

It’s also a choice, not a destiny.

How is this person most likely to ignore what you are saying to them?

Falling asleep!

What would you recommend that they do about that?

Stay awake!!!!   Open your heart.  It provides the right answers.

I think this person created this nightmare because….

He created it.  He has to recognize that it’s a choice that he has to make.

What have you heard yourself say?

Bending and turning things; the hammer and anvil have given me a long time perspective.  The decisions I’m making now will affect a lot of people for a long time. That was a surprise to me because my time frame has been so attenuated since I got my cancer diagnosis.  It’s been hard for me to see that the decisions I’m making now have long term implications.  In a past life I was the wife of a samuri in the height of that period in Japan.  I was good with money and kept my husband financially secure.  I was a respected member of the society with money and influence.  I also had a son, who I have met this lifetime.  I spent a bunch of years toward the end of my life as a Zen nun.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your deepest, truest inner self, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Get out of thinking in terms of one lifetime.  See the big picture.  Go back to understanding that your choices are not for next week, month, or year, but how what you does can have an impact on your soul and future incarnations.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. Reaching children with IDL.

2. Networking.

3. Initiative, drive, focus

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

I have been given Hitler, who is unconscious or in some sort of state of hibernation, to look after.  I am worried that he could wake up at any minute.  I am carrying him around in a car.  He’s laid out flat.  I find some guy to lie down with him and keep an eye on him.  All the time I am trying to figure out what to do with him.

I am running toward my car, which is parked catty-corner, on the other side of a busy intersection, just before the light, at the bottom of a hill.  I have to stop for traffic.  I see a long, low metallic vehicle cruise by.  Then as I walk toward my car I realize another one has pulled up next to my car and five or so big guys are completely going through it, taking everything apart.  It could be government, it could be military, but it is anonymous and it is unstoppable.  A woman in the group sees me and starts yelling questions at me.  I know I’m going to be caught up in whatever this is about.  I vaguely feel I carried something contraband in my car.  Hitler?

Why do you think that you had this dream?

I went to Prora day before yesterday on Rügen, near Binz, where Hitler had a huge “vacation paradise” built for 20,000 at a time.  It stretches for miles along the Baltic sea.  Although I’ve been to the Brandenburg Gate and the Reichstag, Prora was the closest I have felt to a sense of the reality of Hitler since I’ve lived in Germany.  In the museum at Prora there were all sorts of pre-WWII and WWII Nazi memorabilia and newspaper articles with Hitler’s picture, making those times very vivid, present, and contemporary, and I could imagine being alive then.

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

Being Responsible for Hitler

These are the characters in the dream…

Hitler, my car, my friend, the intersection, vehicles, woman, guys

If one character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be?

Hitler

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Hitler, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I’m in some sort of coma-like state.  I can’t wait to wake up to reassert my authority and will.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I get what I want.  I can make almost anyone, most of the time, do what I want, get me whatever I want.  I do it through fear.  I like that you are afraid of me.  You should be, or I’ll kill you, or worse.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I do not like that I am in this coma-like state.  I do not like that my power can be checked.

Hitler, you are in this Joseph’s life experience, correct?  They created you, right? What aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

The potential of awakened malevolence within himself.

Hitler, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I wouldn’t go into comas.  I would be clever enough to always stay well ahead of those who are trying to catch me, to limit me, to take away, limit, or destroy my power to do whatever I want to whomever I want.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Hitler, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence:      10 I have great confidence in my ability to intimidate people into doing what I want.  I have great confidence in the power of fear, lies, and buying people off.

Compassion:      0

Wisdom              7 You would say that I am merely smart, but I have a great deal of experience in what works and what does not.  You may not like my type of wisdom; you may not agree with it, but it gets real results that people have to respect, whether they like it or not.  Most people secretly wish they had my ability to get what I want. You envy it too, if you were honest with yourself.

Acceptance:       8 I accept who and what I am.  Do you?

Inner Peace:       0 I am not interested in inner peace.  I want more power and control.

Witnessing:         7 I could not have accomplished what I have already accomplished if I did not have considerable witnessing ability.

Hitler, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

Of course.  I would only want to change if it woke me up out of this coma without changing me.  I couldn’t be me if I had any desire for either compassion or inner peace.

How would the life of Joseph be different if he naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

He would accomplish his goals, that’s for sure.  He already has considerable inner peace and a good portion of compassion.  What I have that he doesn’t is unstoppable confidence, wisdom about dealing with people, no self-doubt, and a determination to follow through with my plans.  Using me as a part of him to get what he want scares him, because he thinks it’s playing with fire, unscrupulous, and may set the worst parts of him free to be destructive.  But I am a part of him, and I represent aspects of his life force that are not only effective, but whose absence not only keep him from being whole, but keep him afraid of himself.

If you could live the life of the person who created you for him, how would you live it differently?

I would be in command, in control.  I would use others to get what I want.  I would not worry about whether or not I was manipulating them or whether the end was justifying the means.  I would instead know that others were getting some of their needs met or they wouldn’t be giving me what I want.  He can do a whole lot more of this without getting into the Drama Triangle. That’s what he needs to be afraid of, not me.

If you could live this person’s waking life for him today, would you handle his three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1. Give away his book on nightmares.  Get the names of sources on line that deal with them, night terrors, and PTSD. Send them unsolicited copies.

2. He needs to then network with those people.  See how that goes. Then consider duplicating with other manuscripts.

3. Take this project and practice initiative, drive, and focus toward it.  If you focus on other things you will lose your focus.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his life?

Learning that you can access the strengths you associate with the threatening, selfish parts of yourself without being threatening or selfish.  That one is enough!

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for this person to imagine that they are you and act as you would?

When you need determined, willful focus to see your task through to completion, regardless of what it is.  This is what people secretly admire about me and what scares the hell out of them.

Why do you think that you are in this person’s life?

To get him to see how he’s thrown the baby out with the bath water.  To have him see how he has disowned strengths he needs out of his fear that he will be devoured by his weaknesses.

How is this person most likely to ignore what you are saying to them?

His fear of becoming or appearing to be like Hitler.

What would you recommend that they do about that?

Realize that is grandiosity.  He in no way has what it takes to become a Hitler. It’s a twisted form of narcissism for him to imagine that he could be ruthless or malevolent.  It’s neither his nature nor in his agenda, and he has the self-awareness, including his Sangha, to catch those tendencies as they arise.

I think this person had this dream because

He needs to own positive qualities that he has disowned out of fear of misusing them.

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

The stripping of his car was a way of saying, “You have this Hitler aspect, and you are going to have to admit it and deal with it.”

What have you heard yourself say?

That it is better to understand and appreciate the fascination of evil and to learn from it than to pretend that you are not that and be both controlled and limited by your dishonesty, repression, and  fear of it.

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of yourself, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Claim all of who you are, good, bad, and ugly.  Trust that the universe is big enough to accept and use all of you.  That when you get “wake up calls” from your dreams through IDL interviews, you not only awaken your strengths and potentials, but those parts of yourself that you fear and that you need to face to become whole.

If you would like a copy of the referenced book on nightmares, email me at Joseph.Dillard@Gmail.Com.

I have jumped off an incredibly high place.  I am falling, falling, falling down toward water below.  Some women spot me and yell my name, saying, “Look! It’s Felix Brandt!”  I let go as I fall and feel fearless and free, yet anxiously anticipating the surface.  My eyes are closed.  I want to put my hands up but they seem glued to my sides.  I keep waiting to hit the water but I only continue to feel the rush of wind and to feel light, floating, suspended…The next thing I know I am up in the water, fine and feeling great.

Associations: I don’t remember many falling dreams.  This one felt like I had to be at least a thousand feet up!

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1.  Taking my practice of waking up to the next level.

2.  Doing a better job of following self-aspect recommendations.

3.  Remembering to frame the moment in terms of the Three Outcomes: abundance, joy, and luminosity

Why do you think that you had this dream?

I don’t remember many falling dreams.  This one felt like I had to be at least a thousand feet up!

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

Free Fall

These are the characters in the dream…

The sky, the air, the water, the woman calling my name, her friend(s)

If one character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be?

The air

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Air, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am hanging out here, minding my own business, being light and free.  He is experiencing me mostly as wind, but that’s not my experience of myself.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

As I said, I am light and I am free.  I am everywhere.  I can’t die.  I am not afraid of anything.  I witness everything.  I am completely aware and completely at peace.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

Weaknesses?  What are those?

(Character), you are in this person’s life experience, correct?  They created you, right?_____  (Character), what aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

Spacious clear, pure awareness.

(Character,) if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

No.  I like being me.  However I do have to take the perspective of the waking identity of this person all the time, in that he loses touch with me, and it gets rather old.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10

Compassion:            ?  I am not sure I know what that is. Is that something I’m supposed to feel about my relationships with others?  I don’t have any feelings whatsoever about others.

Wisdom:                  ? I don’t know if I’m wise or not.  I generally don’t think.

Acceptance: 10

Inner Peace: 10

Witnessing:           10

(Character,) if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I would be personal rather than impersonal.  I would have qualities of engagement rather than extreme disengagement or detachment.   These seem to contradict my beingness.

How would the life of the person who created you be different if he/she naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

He can potentially do this in ways that I can not or do not.  He would have no fear or anxiety; he would stay serene, light, and free.

If you could live the life of the person who created you for him, how would you live it differently?

I would be in the present moment always, because that is how I live.  It is difficult for him to think and to do that too, because thinking splits everything into subject-object, past (intention) and present (thought).  Still, that’s what I would do.

If you could live this person’s waking life for him today, would you handle his three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1.  Taking my practice of waking up to the next level: I would have him be me.

2.  Doing a better job of following self-aspect recommendations: The same.

Remembering to frame the moment in terms of the Three Outcomes: abundance, joy, and luminosity: I wouldn’t think about these.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his/her life?

1. Being.

2. Witnessing.

3. Experiencing.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for this person to imagine that they are you and act as you would?

Whenever he wants to anchor himself in those three awarenesses.

Why do you think that you are in this person’s life?

To help him wake up.

How is this person most likely to ignore what you are saying to them?

Identifying with his thoughts, as if they were real.

What would you recommend that they do about that?

Remember that such identification is optional and then to become me.

I think this person had this dream because

he is trying to become me but only gets about half-way there.

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

There was no experience of hitting the water because that was not the focus of the dream.  Besides, there is no death of consciousness itself ; there was no body to experience hitting the water.

What have you heard yourself say?

Staying stuck in my waking perspective, even while I am dreaming, creates drama.  None of that drama has any significance from this part of myself that cannot die.  I am working at having the option to become that part of myself whenever I want to.

(From Integral Deep Listening and Meditation)

x

x

Mark had just begun studying to become a Practitioner of Integral Deep Listening.  He shared the following life issues.  “No matter how much I work I break even every month!” “I’m going to be a father!”  “I’m going to be a single parent!”

These issues do not, on the surface, look like they have anything to do with meditation.  However, on closer examination, that conclusion seems to be more a result of limits in our understanding of meditation than it has to do with meditation itself.  Consider Mark’s dream:

I am sitting on a hard wood floor.  All around me in this room are cold stone walls going up about thirty feet.  There is no visible light source.  It’s dim.  I am sitting in a meditation posture, meditating.  I see the figure of a man, sinewy, dark face, with pointed, very defined features.  It’s not the face of a man; more the face of a monster!  It scares me!  Then all of a sudden he’s levitating in front of me and he communicates with me!  I instantly realize that this is my guru, my spiritual teacher!  I realize I have nothing to fear!  I realize this entity is going to take me to the ever-loving bliss of God! Slowly I start to levitate with him, but not with my body.  It’s almost as if my essence is coming up!  As it does, I feel this raw ecstatic joy, love, and bliss.  I can’t even describe how it felt!  A feeling of oneness with the universe!  I know I am stepping out of dualism and that my time is up in material creation and that I am starting to merge with the infinite!

Most meditators would like to have an experience like Mark had in this dream.  Many people would like to find the right spiritual teacher or Guru to teach them how to be one with the divine.  Why don’t they?  Well, the fact is, they probably already do; they just don’t know it.

I am referring to the community of self-aspects that are called internal Sangha members in Integral Deep Listening.  A “sangha” is a Pali Buddhist word that refers to a spiritual community.  In Integral Deep Listening, students learn to work with an internal sangha of self-aspects that are advisors in all areas of personal development.  As you learn to do so, you receive the guidance that you need to meditate effectively.

The very fact that this powerfully transformative experience came in a dream tells us that dreams can and do teach us about meditation.  If Mark had not remembered this dream he still would have had it.  That implies that you are most likely having dreams that can and do help you with your spiritual development every night that you do not remember.  How might your life be different if you not only remembered such dream experiences but used Integral Deep Listening to listen to them, understand them, heal your blockages, and identify with those aspects of yourself, like Mark’s Guru, that already are where you want to be in your development?

When Mark imagined that he was the Guru it said,  

I like my face.  I dislike that my face scares him, but he needs to see that which is beneath appearances.  I could have come as anything.  I chose this persona to teach.  I’m here to help Mark reconnect with the infinite.  Self-realization. Mark has desire in his heart and his soul to find the truth.  He has desire to escape limitations that he places on himself.  In his heart he called to me so I have come to him.  I go about levitating because I am one with the universe.  I can be anywhere, anything, at any time.  I can be a man floating in the air!

Notice that spirit was not afraid to scare Mark, if that is what it took to wake him up. Mark might have wanted to change this dream so that say, the Guru wouldn’t scare him or so that he became the Guru or so that all his waking problems were solved.  But this is not what the Guru said when asked.  Instead, he said,

If I could change this dream I would leave it as it is.

I most closely personify Mark’s higher self.  He needs to see his higher self as a monster because that’s how he wants to see me in the moment.  He’s still afraid of the future, he’s still afraid of letting go.  So in his fear he creates a monster!  My greatest strengths are my oneness with everything, my total realization and understanding of the universe.  The reason why I am in this dream is to show Mark that there is hope, that his spiritual development does not have to be done alone and that he is always loved, forever, and that connection is never broken.

Notice that this Guru, which says that it personifies Mark’s potential identity, does not tell Mark things that he does not already know.  Instead, he places emphasis on attitudes, perspectives, and behaviors that represent different priorities.  The shifts can be subtle, but they make all the difference in the world for the speed of Mark’s spiritual development and his future success learning to meditate.

If I were in charge of Mark’s life I wouldn’t change it. He’s doing what he needs to do right now.  He changed some things recently and it was exactly what he needed to do.   Regarding money, his faith in spirit is strong but his patience is weak.  He has little patience.  He is learning to experience and have patience and realize that what he desires will come to him when he needs it to.  He must continue to do what he is doing, having faith and being patient, not letting anxiety overcome his reason.  Let it out, let it go, and give it away! He is going to be a good father, but he knows that.  Regarding being a single father, this situation will take care of itself.  Nothing is needed to do, just to be and to go with it. Mark and Julia learned what they needed to learn.  Now they need to be separate to learn what they need to learn.  Mark already knows that the child is Indigo and that the most important thing he can do is show unconditional love.  He doesn’t yet know how to show it but he’s getting it.

You may be thinking, “But isn’t this just Mark imagining things?  Isn’t this just Mark just telling himself things that he already knows?  What’s so special about that?  Isn’t he just reassuring himself with comfortable expressions that validate who he already thinks that he is?”

Such skepticism is healthy, natural, and necessary.  It is to be encouraged.  That is because Integral Deep Listening as a psychospiritual methodology.  The statements of interviewed self-aspects must be put to the test within the test tube of your own life.  Integral Deep Listening is the catalyst; when the experiment is performed, healing, balancing, and transformation are likely to be the result.

Mark will benefit from identifying with me by realizing that I am always here, that he will grow into me, and we will be one. He just needs to keep smiling and laughing.  Play a little more!  His lower self has been neglected a little.  Follow his heart.   Regarding Integral Deep Listening, it’s a wonderful thing for him to learn.  He will learn higher forms of meditation and self-realization.  His desire to help others will lead him into teaching things that will help them know themselves.

This interview did not solve all of Mark’s problems.  It was not a magic cure.  He still had to do all the heavy lifting and to make the hard decisions of his life.  But it did powerfully influence Mark.  He went forward with his life knowing that he was not alone and that he had powerful sources of inner support and direction that he could access anytime that were natural meditators, even if he was not.  He now knew there were parts of himself that wanted to help him to learn to meditate and to bring spirit more fully into his everyday experience.

Integral Deep Listening teaches you to look at your life from the perspective of your innermost, most sacred potentials.  This is meditative consciousness, and it evolves as you learn to practice deep listening to aspects of yourself, particularly those which score high in six core qualities that personify our highest potentials as humans.  From this experience, Mark learned a number of truths that helped him to understand how to meditate more successfully.  He learned that the Guru he was seeking is within himself, that he avoids spiritual awakening because the seeming unattainability of that state intimidates him.  This is personified by the scary face of the Guru.  Part of Mark intuitively knows that to transform, he must die, and death scares the limited waking self whom we normally think that we are. Mark received a powerful message of love and support and understood better that he needs to look beneath the surface of how things seem to him.

Acceptance is another key message from the Guru: “Let it out, let it go, and give it away!”  Mark gained a deep inner sense that his life is on the right track, that he is headed in the right direction despite his worries about his impending parenthood and financial struggles.

Temple Mount

I am on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.  The Israelis have just attacked it and very quickly and efficiently wiped out the Palestinian defenders.  There are concrete and metal gun supports on the pavement, but that is all that remains.  Maybe some places where the blood stains have been washed off but still leave some traces.

Associations: Dunno.  Haven’t been thinking about this topic recently.  I am a long-time opponent of Zionism and Israeli nationalism.  Nationalism is a disease; when you mix it with religion, you get psychopathological radicalism and intolerance, whether it’s Jewish, Islamic, or Christian.  I have been to the Temple Mount, long ago.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1.  Taking my practice of waking up to the next level.

2.  Doing a better job of following self-aspect recommendations.

3.  Remembering to frame the moment in terms of the Three Outcomes: prosperity, joy, and luminosity

If one character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be?

The Temple Mount

Temple Mount, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I have been here a long time.  Stupid people have built a lot of stupid structures on me.  They have done a lot of stupid things on me.  They have fought stupidly over me.  They have killed each other for stupid reasons on top of me.

Wooo, Temple Mount!  You seem just a little judgmental!

What do I care whether you think I’m judgmental or not?  Don’t ask my opinion if you don’t want to hear it.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I like that I signify man’s search for transcendent meaning in his life.  I like that I’ve survived all this stupidity all these millenia.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

There’s nothing I dislike about myself.  I could say I don’t like what’s happening on me, but if it has to happen, if there has to be some place that people have to kill each other in the Name of the Sacred, I guess it might as well be me.

(Character), you are in this person’s life experience, correct?  They created you, right?_____  (Character), what aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

The underlying ground of reality beneath drama: personal, political, social, cultural.

(Character,) if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I don’t think so.  It is enough to be listened to, as I am now.  No one ever consults me to see what I think.  It’s all about them and what they do on me and what they don’t think should be done on me.  No one ever asks me MY opinion.  See, if I shook myself, for instance, to get their attention, they wouldn’t get the wake-up call, just like they misinterpret everything else in their lives, from their dreams to the intentions of each other.  So no.  I would keep my form, but people would come to me to interview me, not to fight over me or to tell me what I represent or to act stupid, which is mostly what they do.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

x

Confidence:          10 Nothing is going to change me, regardless of how much or how little blood they spill on me.  I don’t have anything to be afraid of.

Compassion:           9 Yeah.  I’m compassionate enough to be me and do my job.  I provide a context, a space in which man can mostly learn who he is not and what doesn’t work. There’s faster ways – man could interview me.  Someday he’ll wake up and start doing that.

Wisdom:                  9 I’m wise enough to not react to any of this.  I’m wise enough to know the difference between stupidity and ignorance.  What people do on me is mostly stupidity.  The information about what doesn’t work is out there.  They ignore it.  It’s not ignorance.  It’s stupidity.

Acceptance: 9 I probably sound judgmental to you.  Too bad.  I’m very accepting.

Inner Peace:              9 Tons of it.  But still able to send you a wake-up call in the form of this dream!

Witnessing: 10 What’s there not to witness?

(Character,) if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

No, not really.

How would the life of the person who created you be different if he/she naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

He wouldn’t do drama. He’d be way centered.  He would be a whole lot more powerful because he would know who he is and act like it.

If you could live the life of the person who created you for him, how would you live it differently?

I wouldn’t be concerned about the stupid things that he does or that go on in his life.  So what? They come, they go!  Focus instead on waking up, and the best way to do that is to listen to me.  I am the Foundation of the Sacred.

Yeah, but not for everyone.  Just the three Western monotheisms.

I personify the sacred that is obscured by the drama triangle.

If you could live this person’s waking life for him today, would you handle his three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Just work at listening more.  Just work at applying in your life what you hear and learn.  Leave the results to themselves.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his/her life?

The above.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for this person to imagine that they are you and act as you would?

Whenever he finds himself in drama: fighting with himself or with life or with others.  Trying to rescue himself or someone else.  Being passive.

Why do you think that you are in this person’s life?

To wake him up, of course!

How is this person most likely to ignore what you are saying to them?

By not doing the above.

What would you recommend that they do about that?

More regular interviewing. Read them over.  Work at taking more recommendations to heart.

I think this person had this dream because

It shows him the stupidity of focusing on the conflicts in his life as if they were real or substantial.  Compared to me, they are neither.

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

He is presently at a place where he does not identify with internal conflict much, and it’s over quickly and relatively painlessly, but it’s still there.  I’m about taking that to the next level.  I’m about disidentifying totally with the natural and inevitable conflicts of life.

What have you heard yourself say?

Hmmmm…that the sacred in me thinks the dramas that occupy my waking mind are stupid, because I know better.  That if I want to give them up, I need to become the Temple Mount part of myself.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?

To make the dramas of life irrelevant in the context of the power and eternity of my actual beingness, which is life itself, without real identity.